Roger Penrose - Is Mathematics Invented or Discovered? 1,702,826 viewsApr 13, 2020 39K

1:06 / 13:48 Roger Penrose - Is Mathematics Invented or Discovered? 1,702,826 viewsApr 13, 2020 39K DISLIKE SHARE DOWNLOAD CLIP SAVE Closer To Truth 451K subscribers Free access to Closer to Truth's library of 5,000 videos: http://bit.ly/376lkKN Mathematics describes the real world of atoms and acorns, stars and stairs, with remarkable precision. So is mathematics invented by humans just like chisels and hammers and pieces of music? Or is mathematics discovered—always out there, somewhere, like mysterious islands waiting to be found? Whatever mathematics is will help define reality itself. Watch more interviews on the origin of mathematics: https://bit.ly/345xfse Sir Roger Penrose is an English mathematical physicist, recreational mathematician and philosopher. He is the Emeritus Rouse Ball Professor of Mathematics at the Mathematical Institute of the University of Oxford, as well as an Emeritus Fellow of Wadham College. Register for free at CTT.com for subscriber-only exclusives: http://bit.ly/2GXmFsP Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers. 6,146 Comments rongmaw lin Add a comment... Closer To Truth Pinned by Closer To Truth Closer To Truth 2 years ago This interview is part of our Mathematics and Philosophy playlist series, created for Mathematics and Statistics Awareness Month. Starting Monday, 4/20/20, we will be publishing two mathematics playlists of all-new, never-before-seen interviews with renowned mathematicians! If you can't wait, the "Is Mathematics Invented or Discovered?" playlist is already available (and freshly updated!) on CTT's channel. Playlist - Is Mathematics Invented or Discovered? - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFJr3pJl27pIp1EsDD2rYaTI7GxoXqrLs 515 megamillionfreak megamillionfreak 11 months ago We are immensely blessed to be living in an era where such minds are available for our casual consumption and for free. 1.6K John Barone John Barone 7 months ago Roger Penrose was awarded the Noble Prize for physics when he was 90 years old; That was an astounding achievement. I am in my early 70s, I can only tell you younger people that to be able to think clearly an and creatively at that age is truly astounding. 133 Storm Rider Storm Rider 3 months ago Sir Roger is a mathematical legend. I read his books in high school and college in the 1990s. His achievements are inspirational, and he stands among the greats like: Dirac, Hilbert, Poincare, Lagrange, and Hamilton. 10 Estrella Sirio Estrella Sirio 7 months ago It is a wonderful video. I have to congratulate everyone who has participated in it, not only the great R. Penrose, because the most important merit is having shared it for free. Thank you. This video should be seen in every school in the world. 27 Bill Nye Bill Nye 6 months ago I’ve always believed that math exists and we do our best to bring it into understanding. I think a few examples for this are with Pi or e. These irrational numbers exist because it’s the math that is already there but we are trying to impose it onto a number system we created. 57 Horario Joselo Horario Joselo 7 months ago I really don't know what to say except "Thank you Roger!". Your thoughts are the beacon of our lives. And also thanks to Closer to Truth. 18 Simon Hallin Simon Hallin 1 year ago When he talked about molecules and atoms, in the beginning, I thought, nice! A mathematician who seems comfortable in physics. Then I searched him up and found out he has a Nobel prize in physics. I guess he's more than comfortable. 889 STaSHZILLA STaSHZILLA 3 months ago Roger Penrose is, by far, my most favorite scientist. Everything this man says is top-notch. 7 Irigima Irigima 5 months ago I should be sleeping, but have always loved Rodger. This guy is simply amazing. 2 toohightohigh toohightohigh 2 months ago This stuff makes my brain want to evolve like i can FEEL the neural path ways expanded in a way that is very rare.like the language of math is invented but the understand of it is discovered 4 Layla Derya Layla Derya 9 months ago Mathematician: "Math is the language of the universe." Physicist: "Math is the language of physics." Engineer: "sin(x) = x." 47 380PPK 380PPK 6 months ago I am a high school mathematics teacher and I posed this question to my incoming freshman class on whether mathematics was invented or discovered along with an experiment. Now here I am on YouTube and I found a video asking the same question I did . Awesome! 33 Vishnu Sharma Vishnu Sharma 1 year ago (edited) Today he was awarded with Nobel prize. 1.8K Mark Rossi Mark Rossi 7 months ago That was great. You can tell which of the two gentlemen connect math to reality and which dabbles in its “creation”. 1 Peli Mies Peli Mies 9 months ago In Civilization, math was discovered. Special thanks to Sid Meier for his lifetime work and all the masterpieces we enjoy (there is a lot)! 53 Alex Eiffel Alex Eiffel 6 months ago I read the Emperor's new mind. Easily one of the most influential books I've ever read. Sir Roger Penrose certainly lives up to his name. 9 EL34Glo EL34Glo 6 months ago Gonna be sad when we lose him. He's one of thr very few open minded brilliant minds out there, that's also respected and listened too. 16 Soylent1981 Soylent1981 2 months ago I love thinking about these topics. It’s gives me a great sense of awe at the natural world. 1 Jaydeep Patil Jaydeep Patil 1 year ago Amazing interviewer.Asks pricise questions and let the guest speak without interrupting.rare quality in today's interviewers. 483 Thomas Walsh Thomas Walsh 11 months ago For an egghead, the man is very engaging. He gets his points across with great clarity. When a super genius explains things well enough so that even a cave-dweller like myself can understand, he is an exceptional communicator. Thanks professor, and congratulations on your Nobel prize.... 222 Paul G Paul G 9 months ago I like Penrose, he seems like a very humble man. And the interviewer is likewise. Two good men grappling with the most important questions in life. 4 Alexis K Alexis K 7 months ago (edited) Mathematics is always discovered. All we do is settle on the language, fine-tuning as time goes on. The primary difficulty, of course, is description/solving/formulating the 'issues' at hand. Food for thought: any formula/concept you can ever think of existed 'well before' humans appeared...! 1 Robert Strickland Robert Strickland 6 months ago Mathematics is a natural progression of intelligence. The moment you recognize that one thing is separate from another, like 2 trees and 5 leaves...then you have the start of mathematics. Mathematics is to the understanding of reality as space is to time. The two can never be separated. 1 Sean Stewart Sean Stewart 6 months ago I’ve always wondered this. Is our math just our perception of reality and our way of understanding it? Or the only way? James Sykes James Sykes 6 months ago "Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas." - A.E 9 Soggy Gamer Soggy Gamer 11 months ago The amazing part is how someone so intelligent can describe things so incredibly well that everyone can follow along. 243 Colin Hay Colin Hay 9 months ago Pythagoras developed the concept of the Pythagorean Theorem by studying in Egypt and observing that ratio being used over and over again with perfect precision, and at numerous different scales in Egyptian architecture that was absolutely ancient, even for his time. This would suggest that the Egyptian architects, at the time of building said structures, had an understanding of the geometric ratios involved with the Pythagorean Theorem. So in a sense, he could have actually relearned a long forgotten principle of Mathematics... If true, this would seem to bolster the idea that Mathematics are endemic to reality. History is not a straight line. 8 Rusul Rusul 2 months ago It's invented to describe things that are discovered and it's powerful enough to help us discover things all on its own. 2 nationshi nationshi 3 months ago Such an interesting conversation, thank you! . FYI, Every Hebrew letter, represents a number too. I would say mathematics was given to us, and we’ve taken it it to the next theory, and observation. 2 William T. McCormack William T. McCormack 6 months ago I think in a sense, it is both. The language of mathematics that we use was certainly created by humans as a tool to easily describe and communicate to each other just how these principles exist within the fabric of the universe. 10 Ronnie Drake Ronnie Drake 6 months ago (edited) Math is an invention, and a unique language. Math is revised and expanded in order to better match the physical phenomena that is discovered. 1 The Coton The Coton 1 year ago Mathematics is just reverse engineering the source code of the Universe. 2.5K Benjamin Knudson Benjamin Knudson 6 months ago (edited) i was told once to read the elements by euclid. They were some very important geometrical ideas that influenced mathematics. I dont think its a required read I'd say its sufficent to learn its principles as they apply to your field 1 JON QPID JON QPID 6 months ago (edited) I’ve been inspired during the course of these pandemic times to learn more about our world via mathematics. What area of Math should I focus on to help me understand this existence? I want to learn and am open to suggestions. Should I begin with Physics? Thanks chat.😅😇 Craig Dobbin Craig Dobbin 6 months ago A discovery imo as I look at mathmatics and in nature like the symmetry of individual snowflakes has always been there ,it just took time to see it everything around us is impossible without mathmatics. Dexter Aguirre Dexter Aguirre 9 months ago Now this question will be added to my never ending question about life and the universe Joel Sterling Joel Sterling 6 months ago I've always pondered this. The conclusion I came to is that there may have always been 2 things, but we came up with the representation of the number 2 as..."2". 1 A Kumar A Kumar 2 years ago Fantastic presentation, Penrose is a wonderful intellect. 166 Closer To Truth Peter Harris Peter Harris 8 months ago Einstein described himself as “standing on the shoulders of giants” (read Newton, et al). Penrose respects and understands, as well as standing himself on the shoulders of his predecessors. 7 L S L S 11 months ago I love Penrose so much. I feel intuitively and logically that his answers are correct about mathematics being a discovery. Our labels of math and language are the invention, the reality always existed. 22 KEITH MAZZAPICA KEITH MAZZAPICA 1 month ago To me, considering how humans thought for a long time prior to modern mathematics, I would say math was perceived from nature. Whether a leaf to the movement of stars. I think there's inherent meaning in nature according to number and form. So I am on the side of mathematical analysis and knowledge from on a deeper level are a part of discovery. Peter Nall Peter Nall 7 months ago Roger, I've been frightened to death about mathematics my entire life. Kosteri x Kosteri x 2 hours ago 8:54 when I was a kid I found a book in the library where reality developed according to people who invented laws of physics. Don’t remember the author nor the book title but I do remember it ended badly. Mathematics exists but not in our observable universe, for example there is no infinity anywhere, you can’t point at pi. So it’s neither invented nor discovered. Intellectual activity is a good approximation, it’s what intelligent beings can derive from our universe if they put their minds to it. But there’s nothing divine or magical about it. sleethmitchell sleethmitchell 7 months ago when math makes true predictions, math feels more 'discovered' than 'invented'. Ricardo Mas Ricardo Mas 6 months ago Invented. Mathematics is everywhere around us and in the universe! We're just figuring it out so that we can understand it but it has always existed and always will milkman's wife milkman's wife 2 years ago this was great. so thrilled to think how much more of mathematics might be understood to in fact relate to reality as we experience it, and possibly unite physics and metaphysics. 9 Closer To Truth Core Ben Core Ben 9 months ago Yeah....This is how I spend my Friday nights, watching smart people blowing my mind with information. I hope I live another 40 to 50 years to look back on things like this to see how far we have come. 4 Mark Norman Mark Norman 9 months ago When you look at Euclid and Newton I think they were discoverers. With Einstein it seems more like inspiration and imagination. 8 roberto seveno roberto seveno 2 months ago Loved this introduction for me to Penrose. (recommended by Jordan Peterson). What he does is reasonable, clear and inspiring. Also like the American interviewer who asks interesting questions and polite. Also, like his squeeky chair lol Joseph Hypolite Joseph Hypolite 4 weeks ago I’ll watch this later when I have more time but my gut reaction to the question is that mathematics is discovered. I believe that any formulation about the physical world already exist. Ilias Blazer Ilias Blazer 6 months ago Mathematics is a form of language to help us understand things. And like every other language in human history it was invented. 3 Ray Gordiano Ray Gordiano 2 years ago For me mathematics is one of the most beautiful ways of describing the universe in a way that can be both complex and simple at the same time. 19 Ghl Scitel Ghl Scitel 7 months ago Same question: Is language invented or discovered? Mathematics is a special language describing ideas with quantitative character. Ideas are discovered. Language to transport ideas is invented. 7 gnarl80fi gnarl80fi 9 months ago discovering math is the answer, because there was always relations of systems, and math is just a language to make these relations comprehensible. 7 James Ruscheinski James Ruscheinski 2 months ago Could mathematics be how information develops in quantum reality, and maybe even smaller? Kawlinz Kawlinz 9 months ago If mathematics were invented, then nothing we observe in the universe would have us change the theories and axioms. 3 antwan1357 antwan1357 5 months ago When I'm asked is math invented or discovered I'm reminded of a mathematical problem that math said bumble bees can't fly by the numbers soooooo this created a whole new mathematical expression just to balance out what life does in numbers. valkonrad valkonrad 2 years ago (edited) Mind blowing as usual, but greatly helped by Prof Penrose’s precision and clarity. Maybe there are also platonic worlds of logic, music and morality, equally fascinating. 20 Closer To Truth Graham Crannell Graham Crannell 6 months ago (edited) I don't know whether it was intentional to have the presenter sit at a student's desk (as opposed to Dr. Penrose's normal armchair), but it's an interesting nod to the novice/expert dichotomy 3 sidux sidux 1 year ago Mathematics emerges when you try to understand relations in a complex system. It just happens that in our universe everything seems relational so it makes math a good candidate to understand it. 161 Oz yaj Oz yaj 9 months ago (edited) It’s probably invented, judging by our base 10 systems working so well for us. Integers 0-9 (in Arabic numerals) account for every other number to infinity including decimals, fractions, and negatives. Our math systems have been “forced” to work for us since its conception. If we evolved with 12 fingers, humans probably would have first invented a base 12 system, (so 0-9, but then two other symbols, and then repeating those 12 numbers to create the rest) and then we probably would have forced THAT system to fit our descriptions of reality eventually, in a similar way that our base 10 systems do now. My point is I just think that our mathematics isn’t a fundamental part of the universe, just a man-made way to describe things that we eventually made advanced enough to describe smaller and smaller and bigger and bigger things. Hence also why we simply can’t make it work at the smallest scales(quantum mechanics for example.) We just can’t see things that small, that clearly, yet. We can’t really see what they look like, what they do, how they move, where they go, etc. The technology isn’t there yet, therefore we haven’t got a way to describe it with math yet.