Thursday, November 09, 2017

Anyone taking Crestor?

  1. #1
    benh 
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    Anyone taking Crestor?

    If so, did you notice higher BGs after starting? In the past two weeks since starting, it seems like my meal-time insulin needs have gone up significantly.
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    CalgaryDiabetic is offlineD.D. Familydiabetic since 1997, on insulin 2000
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    Jeanne Wagner a not insulin dependent diabetic also reported much better blood sugars since stopping her statin.
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    jwags is offlineD.D. FamilyT2 since 2007
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    Make sure you watch out for any muscle pains or mental brain fog. I was on prevarastatin for over a year and ignored a lot of little muscle aches, fatigue and brain fog as old age or artritis. Plus I had difficulty with after meal numbers and could not get fasting below 110. Since going off of it I seem to be much more sensitive to my own insulin. Fasting are consistently under 100 and 2 hour pp no higher than 120.
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    benh 
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    I was on Zocor for about eight months before switching to Crestor. My LDL dropped very quickly with Zocor, but crept back up over 100 over the past few months. My HDL is also low, and I've been told Crestor may raise HDL too.

    Basically, I find that my fasting and pre-meal and fasting numbers are fine, but my insulin:carb ratio has shifted quite a bit. I probably need about 15% more insulin than I did in the past and it seems like things started shifting around three weeks ago when I started on Crestor.

    I am also on a lower dose of Crestor (10mg) than Zocor (20mg).
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    Frisha's Avatar
    Frisha is offlineD.D. FamilyAtypical Type 1, Pumping
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    Here's an article from DiabetesUpdate discussing how statins increase insulin resistance. http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2...d-insulin.html Not an ideal medicine for someone with blood sugar issues, IMO!
    Frisha
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    benh 
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    What is strange is that my basal insulin needs seem completely unchanged (fasting 75-95) -- only meal-time boluses have needed to be upped. This makes me think increased insulin resistance is not the culprit.
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    jwags's Avatar
    jwags is offlineD.D. FamilyT2 since 2007
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    When I started on a statin my LDL fell, but my HDL fell too and my Trigs went up. They told me statins reduced inflammation but in my case I felt they increased it. It did make me more insulin resistant even though I had lost a ton of weight.
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    dolby's Avatar
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    Why did you switch to Crestor if Zocor was dropping your LDL quickly? Crestor is absolutely the strongest statin out there. It's a much more dense material, so you can't compare 10mg to 20mg of Zocor. It has tremendous sideeffects. I was only taking 5mg for 3 months and suffered from numerous neurological symptoms: occipital neuraglia is one of them. It felt like someone was stabbing me with a screwdriver in the back of my head. Doctors who still believe that lowering LDL is the number one priority for heart health are prescribing Crestor with impunity. I would watch Crestor very carefully. Examine sites that track side effects. I switched to Zocor and Simvastatin (which is a generic) was also effective in lowering LDL. But then I went on a low carb diet and ditched all statins within 3 months. The best thing to do is to lower your LDL through diet and exercise. If you have to, I would be inclined to be on the least toxic statin ... that would be something like Pravastatin, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by benh View Post
    I was on Zocor for about eight months before switching to Crestor. My LDL dropped very quickly with Zocor, but crept back up over 100 over the past few months. My HDL is also low, and I've been told Crestor may raise HDL too.

    Basically, I find that my fasting and pre-meal and fasting numbers are fine, but my insulin:carb ratio has shifted quite a bit. I probably need about 15% more insulin than I did in the past and it seems like things started shifting around three weeks ago when I started on Crestor.

    I am also on a lower dose of Crestor (10mg) than Zocor (20mg).
    A1c: 8.4 (5/09); 7.2 (8/09); 6.9 (10/09); 6.4 (11/09); 5.8 (1/10); 5.4 (9/10); 5.7 (3/11); 5.5 (8/11)
    Meds: Metformin 2k
    Supps: Cod Liver Oil 1.6g; ALA 300; Biotin 5; Vit D3 4k; CoQ10 100; Mg 250; EPO 1.3k; Vit K-2 100; Vit B-12 1k; I 3k; Chrom 200; Se 200; Vit C 500; Zn 10; Cu 1; NAC 300
    Weight: 215 (7/07); 210 (7/08); 205 (10/09); 185 (11/09); 175 (12/09); 163 (2/10); 160 (4/10); 157 (8/10); 157 (4/11); 156 (5/11); 162 (10/11)
    Diet: Low/Mod Carbs; Gluten-, Dairy- & Nightshade-free
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    benh 
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolby View Post
    Why did you switch to Crestor if Zocor was dropping your LDL quickly? Crestor is absolutely the strongest statin out there. It's a much more dense material, so you can't compare 10mg to 20mg of Zocor. It has tremendous sideeffects. I was only taking 5mg for 3 months and suffered from numerous neurological symptoms: occipital neuraglia is one of them. It felt like someone was stabbing me with a screwdriver in the back of my head. Doctors who still believe that lowering LDL is the number one priority for heart health are prescribing Crestor with impunity. I would watch Crestor very carefully. Examine sites that track side effects. I switched to Zocor and Simvastatin (which is a generic) was also effective in lowering LDL. But then I went on a low carb diet and ditched all statins within 3 months. The best thing to do is to lower your LDL through diet and exercise. If you have to, I would be inclined to be on the least toxic statin ... that would be something like Pravastatin, I think.
    To be clear, while on Zocor, my LDL dropped from 130 to 80, but rose again to 105. I was more interested in switching to Crestor as it is may raise my low HDL and I did not want to chance the higher risk of side effects that accompanies increasing my Zocor dose.

    As for diet and exercise, I eat well, am not overweight, and ride my exercise bike 10-15 miles daily at 20-23 MPH.
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    scottietwenty3 is offlineD.D. FamilyType 2 diagnosed 8/02/2010 (no meds)
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanne wagner View Post
    They told me statins reduced inflammation but in my case I felt they increased it.
    The JUPITER trial which involved almost 18,000 men and women clearly demenstarted statins lower CRP so it verifys what they told you. I still think having your CRP measured is the best way to measure what reduces or increases our inflamation levels otherwise we are at best making an educated guess. 
    Scottie
    A1C dx Feb 10 6.1 May 10 5.3 Sep 10 5.4 Nov 10 5.2 Sep 11 5.6 Oct 12 5.9 May 13 5.8
    1. #11
      fgummett's Avatar
      fgummett is offlineD.D. FamilyMetabolic Syndrome (T2) since 2003
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      Quote Originally Posted by benh View Post
      As for diet and exercise, I eat well, am not overweight, and ride my exercise bike 10-15 miles daily at 20-23 MPH.
      So why are you on a statin? 

      The "LDL" reported by the lab is a measure of volume of LDL particles in a given volume of blood BUT it does not take into account the different sized LDL particles -- large fluffy/buoyant particles are seen by many authorities as 300% less risky than small dense particles... large buoyant particles take up more volume. There is a direct test for LDL particle size (rarely done routinely) but a low Triglyceride level correlates well with large fluffy LDL particles.

      Statins clearly do lower LDL levels as measured by the lab, but if you believe that statins prevent heart disease, please click the thumbnail and check out the legal disclaimer on this Crestor TV advert...crestor.jpg

      ...
      Last edited by fgummett; 11/03/10 at 07:05 AMReason: added TV ad...
      Frank
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      trinitarian3n1 is offlineD.D. FamilyT2 dx 3/07, tx w/very lo carb D&E Met, bolus R
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      Quote Originally Posted by scottietwenty3 View Post
      The JUPITER trial which involved almost 18,000 men and women clearly demenstarted statins lower CRP so it verifys what they told you. I still think having your CRP measured is the best way to measure what reduces or increases our inflamation levels otherwise we are at best making an educated guess. 
      I also think there are safer ways than statins to reduce your inflammation AND correct the lipid markers that may also impact cardiovascular disease (Triglycerides, HDL, and small-particle LDL).
      John C.
      'Veni, Vidi, Velcro' - I came, I saw, I stuck around.
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      dolby's Avatar
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      I believe what you need is something called "VAP Chlesterol Profile." Supposedly, this will divide LDL into real LDL, intermediate DL (IDL) and Lipoprotein A. Google these names if you wanna find out more about them. I don't know them that well, and will be having my blood draw for my next visit with my Endo. Also the Profile will supposedly measure your VLDL directly (not estimate as 20% of Trigs) and as separate components: VLDL 1-3. My Endo is curious how much of my LDL is bad; my current level is 99. I once tested 70 when I was on Crestor (w multiple side effects). The normal range for LDL used to be <130 .="" 100="" and="" any="" be="" become="" benchmarks="" br="" convince="" doc="" doctors="" have="" hypervigilant="" labcorp="" ldl="" me="" no="" now="" per="" statin.="" take="" to="" under="" want="" way="" will="">
      Quote Originally Posted by fgummett View Post
      The "LDL" reported by the lab is a measure of volume of LDL particles in a given volume of blood BUT it does not take into account the different sized LDL particles -- large fluffy/buoyant particles are seen by many authorities as 300% less risky than small dense particles... large buoyant particles take up more volume. There is a direct test for LDL particle size (rarely done routinely) but a low Triglyceride level correlates well with large fluffy LDL particles.
      A1c: 8.4 (5/09); 7.2 (8/09); 6.9 (10/09); 6.4 (11/09); 5.8 (1/10); 5.4 (9/10); 5.7 (3/11); 5.5 (8/11)
      Meds: Metformin 2k
      Supps: Cod Liver Oil 1.6g; ALA 300; Biotin 5; Vit D3 4k; CoQ10 100; Mg 250; EPO 1.3k; Vit K-2 100; Vit B-12 1k; I 3k; Chrom 200; Se 200; Vit C 500; Zn 10; Cu 1; NAC 300
      Weight: 215 (7/07); 210 (7/08); 205 (10/09); 185 (11/09); 175 (12/09); 163 (2/10); 160 (4/10); 157 (8/10); 157 (4/11); 156 (5/11); 162 (10/11)
      Diet: Low/Mod Carbs; Gluten-, Dairy- & Nightshade-free
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      fgummett's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by dolby View Post
      ... The normal range for LDL used to be <130 ...="" .="" 100="" and="" be="" become="" benchmarks="" div="" doctors="" have="" hypervigilant="" labcorp="" ldl="" now="" per="" to="" under="" want="">
      The point about the "volume" and different particle size discussion above, is that it makes a complete nonsense of any LDL "level"... it's like saying "how many balls does it take to fill a large garbage sack?"... without specifying if we are talking tennis balls or beach balls?

      Thus, two patients with the same LDL measurement in mg/dl may have differing levels of cardiovascular riskdepending on the relative proportions of small, dense and large, fluffy particles.
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      dolby's Avatar
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      That's very encouraging that low Trigs suggest more benign components making up LDL. You would think doctors would know about this; most are clueless about this. All of the doctors that have examined me interpret LDL numbers separately -- i.e., independently, not juxtaposed with Triglyceride levels. AstraZeneca and Pfizer (manufacturers of Crestor and Lipitor) will not want doctors to consider Trigs in dispensing statins. AstraZeneca is making a fortune selling Crestor. Pharmaceutical firms engage in guerilla marketing to convince doctors to prescribe their brand of statin. Big Pharma wants statins to be prescribed reflexively, upon any finding that the LDL exceeds the lower threshold now being promoted by Labcorp as unacceptable. No if's, and's or but's.

      We can perhaps call this the Medical-Pharmaceutical Complex, and President Obama might as well call attention to it, just like President Eisenhower (himself a soldier) did in calling attention to the Military Industrial Complex.

      Quote Originally Posted by fgummett View Post
      There is a direct test for LDL particle size (rarely done routinely) but a low Triglyceride level correlates well with large fluffy LDL particles.
      Last edited by dolby; 11/03/10 at 05:38 PM.
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      fgummett's Avatar
      fgummett is offlineD.D. FamilyMetabolic Syndrome (T2) since 2003
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      Clearly there is little money to be made in lowering Triglycerides for either Pharmaceutical or Food Manufacturers... as the simplest solution I am aware of is: to cut back on the refined/concentrated Carbohydrates that are found cheaply and abundantly in processed/packaged foods.
      Another wrinkle often overlooked is that even the LDL "level" is rarely measured directly but is instead "estimated" using the Friedewald Equation 

      So the decision to medicate us with potentially very risk drugs is based on an estimated volume that requires additional information (particle size -- which is rarely measured) to correctly interpret...

      ...should I go on to mention that HDL and LDL are not even Cholesterol... but High/Low-DensityLipoproteins


      Interesting you mention President Eisenhower -- in Gary Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories - Chapter One is entitled "The Eisenhower Paradox"... he recounts that President's much publicised Heart Attack and his reported cholesterol levels...
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      dolby's Avatar
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      What about Tricor? Isn't that supposed to lower triglycerides? But I rarely hear about doctors prescribing Tricor. Dwight Eisenhower apparently was never able to lower his total cholesterol (TC): it kept going up even as he stuck to a very strict low fat diet. I'm wondering, though, if Ike's overall caloric intake was low and his BMI was rather optimal (~6' and 170 lbs.), what made his TC go up gradually over time? I see that he was consuming margarine and probably corn oil. But if he was practically starving himself to death, should his TC have any reason to go up so steadily as he aged, regardless of whether he was on a low fat (or low carb) diet? I realize that mainstream doctors would attribute Ike's heart failure (which killed him) to genetics: if it doesn't make sense, then it must be your defective DNA. But I'm curious: I mean, can a low fat (i.e., high carb) diet still wreak havoc on your heart at sub-2,000 per diem calories? I guess so, if you read the Eisenhower story.

      Quote Originally Posted by fgummett View Post
      Clearly there is little money to be made in lowering Triglycerides for either Pharmaceutical or Food Manufacturers...

      So the decision to medicate us with potentially very risk drugs is based on an estimated volume that requires additional information (particle size -- which is rarely measured) to correctly interpret......should I go on to mention that HDL and LDL are not even Cholesterol... but High/Low-Density Lipoproteins

      Interesting you mention President Eisenhower -- in Gary Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories - Chapter One is entitled "The Eisenhower Paradox"... he recounts that President's much publicised Heart Attack and his reported cholesterol levels...
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      scottietwenty3's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by trinitarian3n1 View Post
      I also think there are safer ways than statins to reduce your inflammation AND correct the lipid markers that may also impact cardiovascular disease (Triglycerides, HDL, and small-particle LDL).
      John my thoughts pretty much echo this view but my post was replying to a post regarding coming of statins has reduced inflamation (in there view) not about the risk vs benefits of statins I just made the valid point that very crediable studies have demostarted cleary that statins reduce CRP in the setting of elevated CRP levels and the only way we have without guessing what our CRP levels are is to test them otherwise we are having a eduacted guess at best. 
      Scottie
      A1C dx Feb 10 6.1 May 10 5.3 Sep 10 5.4 Nov 10 5.2 Sep 11 5.6 Oct 12 5.9 May 13 5.8
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      CalgaryDiabetic is offlineD.D. Familydiabetic since 1997, on insulin 2000
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      Quote Originally Posted by fgummett View Post
      The point about the "volume" and different particle size discussion above, is that it makes a complete nonsense of any LDL "level"... it's like saying "how many balls does it take to fill a large garbage sack?"... without specifying if we are talking tennis balls or beach balls?
      The more so since volume and thereby weight are proportional to the diameter cubed, total weight is possibly meaningless since it will depend on the large particles only.
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      drugrep is offlineMemberType 2 since 2005
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      I take 20 mg of Crestor and doc giggled and said my LDL was only good thing on my labs. LDL 47!
    QuoteQuote
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    dolby's Avatar
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    That's a good number. But I think you might wanna ask: do you really need your LDL to be that low? At what cost are you keeping your LDL so low? I'm sure your doc is keeping track of your kidneys and liver. I would consult sites that document side effects from statins. Perhaps you are one of those who need to be on a stain. I don't know. But knowing full welll the possible consequences of taking such a powerful dose of Crestor over the long run wouldn't hurt.

    You'll notice that the recent test that purport to lower the CRP level of those taking Crestor was cut short after only 2 years. Why? Because the test was so successful, claims Crestor! Now, read between the lines. Perhaps the test was cut short so that serious side effects and damages to liver and kidneys would not have the chance to emerge en masse -- such damages typically take a longer time to develop. I'm not saying this is true, but that would be one possibility. Quit while you're ahead.

    Examine this and other sites that are skeptical about the benefits being touted by Crestor.

    http://medicationsense.com/articles/...orCRP0109.html

    And don't forge the oft-made claim that statins might actually promote pre-diabetes, which will eventually increase the risk of heart disease.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mar..._b_712929.html

    Quote Originally Posted by drugrep View Post
    I take 20 mg of Crestor and doc giggled and said my LDL was only good thing on my labs. LDL 47!
    Last edited by dolby; 11/07/10 at 01:08 AM.
    A1c: 8.4 (5/09); 7.2 (8/09); 6.9 (10/09); 6.4 (11/09); 5.8 (1/10); 5.4 (9/10); 5.7 (3/11); 5.5 (8/11)
    Meds: Metformin 2k
    Supps: Cod Liver Oil 1.6g; ALA 300; Biotin 5; Vit D3 4k; CoQ10 100; Mg 250; EPO 1.3k; Vit K-2 100; Vit B-12 1k; I 3k; Chrom 200; Se 200; Vit C 500; Zn 10; Cu 1; NAC 300
    Weight: 215 (7/07); 210 (7/08); 205 (10/09); 185 (11/09); 175 (12/09); 163 (2/10); 160 (4/10); 157 (8/10); 157 (4/11); 156 (5/11); 162 (10/11)
    Diet: Low/Mod Carbs; Gluten-, Dairy- & Nightshade-free
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